The HabForum

What major activities would you expect for a weeklong camp?

For reference purposes, the weekend adult camp activities (26 1/2 hours total spread over 3 days) are:
3 shuttle missions (training & mission) - 10 1/2 hours (8 1/2 in sims)
miscellaneous (including meals) - 8 hours
rocket construction & launch - 2 1/2 hours
space history highlights - 1 1/2 hours
Aviation Challenge - 1 hour
Multi-axis & 1/6 G - 1 hour
Space Bowl - 1 hour
IMAX movie - 1 hour

How much would you pay for a weeklong camp?

Weekend is $549

Based on the one that I attended in 1996, I would expect at least 4 2-hour training missions and one at least 12-hour EDM, 24 would be better, but we only had a 12-hour in 96.
Scuba training (team members who were certified were allowed to do an EVA in the scuba tank during the EDM)
Aviation Challenge Simulator Training and survival training.
Sessions on space history in the museum
Rocket construction and launching.
A Special challenge for each track. In Engineering where I was, we had to build an egg capsule that would keep the egg from breaking when dropped from the top of the scuba tank.
A social night for the team. This was done midway. In 96 we all viewed a video of the Right Stuff and had a special dinner. In the 6-day camp that I attended we went to the theatre in Huntsville, in flight suits, to see Space Cowboys, which was in it theatrical run. (The counselors tried to pretend that they weren't with us!)
Some lectures on Rocketry, by an original rocket scientist if possible.
Lunch with an astronaut or dinner. (at the 6-day camp, we got Hoot Gibson!)
Centrifuge training.
Rocket park tour and lecture.
MASTIF, 1.6 gravity chair and 5DF simulators, MMU if possible (we had it in 88, the first 3-day that I attended)
Area 51 training. That was the special challenge for the Pilot track.
Tour of Marshall Space Flight Center

Those are the main things that I can remember right now. I will look through my old papers when I get a chance and maybe add more. I would want the missions to be either Orion based or a legacy Apollo moon mission would be nice too.

I forgot to add that I would pay up to about $1600 for a week long camp. It was only about $1000 in 96, but I would expect to pay more now.

I'd echo pretty much what Conan said. That was pretty close to the original adult academy I signed up for. The week-long adult academy was essentially the youth Advanced Space Academy for adults - identical programming, minus the curfew and the addition of coffee for those who wanted it, and off-site privileges.

I was really impressed with the corporate camp last year, but some key presentations were missing, which would have been nice for my husband, a newbie.

I'd like to think that the 4-day sessions could be SC dipping their toes into possibly bringing back the normal week-long sessions. I have fly in from the opposite corner of the continent, and it's be tough to justify going that distance for 3 days of anything. So far, I've combined SC with other longer activity in the region (in 2012, it was right before a cross-country sightseeing road trip with my wife who arrived the day I completed SC, last year it was the same for a Tennessee road trip with her, and this year it'll be after a 4-day trip to Kennedy Space center) but I couldnt imagine just going all that way to do a 3-day session, then getting back on the plane... A week session, if even just 2-3 times a year, would give a better shot at those others who want to go but not all that way for an abridged weekend.

SpaceCanada wrote:I'd echo pretty much what Conan said. That was pretty close to the original adult academy I signed up for. The week-long adult academy was essentially the youth Advanced Space Academy for adults - identical programming, minus the curfew and the addition of coffee for those who wanted it, and off-site privileges.
I was really impressed with the corporate camp last year, but some key presentations were missing, which would have been nice for my husband, a newbie.

I have been interested in the corporate programs for a while now (the one I was going to sign up for chose not to have one this year) but if they went back to a week-long program, that'd be quite tempting. While it'd be great to go to SC with people who've all been there before and having a program which cut what I consider extraneous parts of it (the model rocket and the space history portions, things that Alumni have already done anyway), I feel there is merit to going with other people who've never been there before.
I love the idea of a 12-hour or longer mission. I've never done one longer than 2 hours (the current adult program 'Charlie' missions are that length, been lucky to log cockpit time on that one each time I've been to SC) and would love to have a mission where it's more than getting into orbit, working like mad to get EVAs completed, then having a highly abridged reentry and landing phase. Skipping through the clock takes much of the reality of the sim out of it.
The idea of a 'track' really interests me as well. I have zero interest in SCUBA as I have done that in the ocean lots of times way back in the day. I'd love knowing I was coming for the cockpit track!
If they brought back the week-long program, I'd be seriously torn on what I'd do the next time I go to SC, the normal weke program or the corportate options (assuming I'm invited to attend with them when they do it next). My problem is I'm unlikely going to make it for 2015 as that year is my 15th anniversary with my wife and we're doing some kind of trip for that. But I think she knows that I'll probably want to go if I can squeeze it in anyway...

I dug out the Level II schedule from 1993, when a 7 day camp with a 24 EDM cost you $700. (Based on CPI, that would be $1,200 now.) I lumped a lot of the teaching sessions into miscellaneous (made it easier to summarize without going by track) but If anyone wants to see a copy, PM me and I'll run it through the copier at work next week, turn it into a PDF, and I can send it to you.

103.5 hours total activities

Sims - 4 or 5 missions total (some people only did 3 missions before the EDM) with 1 24 EDM - 49.5 hours total, 40 in sims
Miscellaneous - 36 hours
AC - 4 hours
IMAX - 2 hours
Rocket construction & launch - 3.5 hours
MSFC tour - 3.5 hours
Water survival - 3 hours
Space Bowl - 1 hour
Rocket Park - 1 hour

As a side note:

At some of the earlier camps I went to, Konrad Dannenberg talked rocketry and toured Rocket Park with us. When the man said "Ve did this," he really meant it! I sure miss that man, RIP! He was one of the best resources that the USSRC had. Some of you may be acquainted with Jackie, his widow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Dannenberg

I was unable to find the schedule for ASA 6-day from 1998 but the cost was $875. We had no outing or lunch with an astronaut so USSRC was already cutting back the price (and cost), probably due to declining attendance. Based on CPI, that same camp would run you $1,300 today.

Conan wrote:I forgot to add that I would pay up to about $1600 for a week long camp. It was only about $1000 in 96, but I would expect to pay more now.

LOL and you're just about spot on based on CPI. Camp sure gives you less for your money these days.

I found my schedule from 1996 and scanned the pages and saved them on Shutterfly. This link should work to let you see them. I was at one of Konrad Dannenburg's rocketry lectures. It was amazing.

We were told today that USSRC will list 2 week long adult pilot programs in 2015. They'll need at least 12 attendees each to be a GO.

John Ramsey posted on Facebook to look for dates posting around yearend 2014 for the pilot week long camps.

majtom7 wrote:John Ramsey posted on Facebook to look for dates posting around yearend 2014 for the pilot week long camps.

John has made additional postings about this in the Adult Space Camp Adventure group on Facebook. He asked that they not be shared in a public forum which is why I am directing you there.

So it's not really a pilot program and more of a private group booking? Or camp approaching a select group for targeted advertising? The Facebook group is closed, and I'm pending approval - although I'm not sure if I qualify to be part of this group.

I wish camp would do a real trial run of the week-long camp and post it to their website and advertise it on their own pages and social media. They would get a more accurate response.

I am happy to have a team for 2015, but wish more people had the chance to attend camp for more than a few days. I know flights are a big expense and staying for a week is more worth-while for some. Here's hoping they open an adult week-long program, at least once a year, and it is successful.

The week-long program seems to be an evasive critter, indeed. For me it's a moot point for 2015 as I'll be very lucky if I can get a 3-day program in next year with the other things going on next year for me. That said, I'm very supportive of a week-long program, maybe 2-3 times a year, so people won't take it for granted. Seemed to work well for the 4-day sessions this year, I understand they did very well with both of those.

majtom7 wrote:We were told today that USSRC will list 2 week long adult pilot programs in 2015. They'll need at least 12 attendees each to be a GO.

Two weeks? Seems a bit excessive to me and I see many problems with the concept:
-Many people couldn't get that much time off from work to do that.
-It'd be tough to pay for a hotel for that long, and staying in the HAB for 2 weeks would really drag on even the most enthusiastic person. The Right Stuff Award that session would likely go to whoever stayed in the HAB the entire time!
-What could you do for 2 weeks that eventually wouldn't seem repetitive? Sure, you could stuff it with sims?

majtom7 wrote:We were told today that USSRC will list 2 week long adult pilot programs in 2015. They'll need at least 12 attendees each to be a GO.

2 week long, not 2 weeks long

John Ramsey said it to us at Camp.

majtom7 wrote:

majtom7 wrote:We were told today that USSRC will list 2 week long adult pilot programs in 2015. They'll need at least 12 attendees each to be a GO.

2 week long, not 2 weeks long

John Ramsey said it to us at Camp.

Ah, grammar bit me in the backside again. I thought it read, "2 week long," as opposed to, "2 week-long" which of course are two different things...

SpaceCanada wrote:So it's not really a pilot program and more of a private group booking?

My feeling is that they are trying to organize what is essentially a corporate camp to eliminate their risk. However, the price point that most people find acceptable is below the range ($1,200-$1,500) that they mentioned. Yet that range is reasonable if you consider that $600 gets you 3 days spread over 4, so $1,200 should get you 6 days spread over 7. Based on the CPI, $1,500 should get you the same week long academy from 1998 (when I believe you were required to have attended camp first). I can only imagine how stripped out the content would be at $1,000.

majtom7 wrote:Based on the CPI, $1,500 should get you the same week long experience from 1998. However, the price point that most people find acceptable is below the range ($1,200-$1,500) that they mentioned. Yet that range is reasonable if you consider that $600 gets you 3 days spread over 4, so $1,200 should get you 6 days spread over 7. I can only imagine how stripped out the content would be at $1,000.

I have to agree with that, $1200-1500 seems reasonable for a week, sliding along that scale depending on what's included. I think people are trying to compare it to the youth camps, which are currently $939 in summer and $739 in autumn/winter. The old adult week-long camp was identical to the youth ASA, with a few minor upgrades, and the price was in line with that. If they go back to that structure (parallel youth and adult programs), with the lower cost, they may get more interest. It's that some people they are consulting want significant upgrades for the lower price, which makes no sense. I heard the week-long adult programs were cancelled for just that reason: people expecting more for free and causing fuss about it.

Just roll out the regular week-long ASA camps for adults and stick to it. The lower price will draw in more people, and people are going to have fun with that; it's a pretty good program! I believe the youth ASA program includes 3 x 2-hour shuttle/ISS missions, 1 x 6-hour shuttle/ISS mission, sim time, rocketry, Area 51, pilot and mission specialist tracks (with corresponding training), space lectures, rocket park tour, museum time, astronomy, and more. I recall them saying ASA kids now get 1 or 2 x 1-hour and 1 x 2.5-hour Orion mission, but not sure if they replace some of the aforementioned shuttle/ISS missions. They used to run the regular adult week camp a few times a year, plus an alumni 8-day week at a much higher cost due to the upgrades (24-hour mission, reception, extra gear, extra missions, catered meal, etc.). That could still be an option for one week of the year.

SpaceCanada wrote: It's that some people they are consulting want significant upgrades for the lower price, which makes no sense. I heard the week-long adult programs were cancelled for just that reason: people expecting more for free and causing fuss about it.

Your Canadian is showing Expecting something for nothing is the American way for some people.

Just to make it clear, I believe that you get what you pay for.