Ares 1-X

Boomerang · Post by **Boomerang** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:09 pm

For the first time in 34 years launch Pad 39B is occupied by a rocket other than the space shuttle. As of this morning the Ares 1-X launch vehicle sits on pad 39B preparing for a launch scheduled 1 week from today at 8 AM. The launch has a 4 hour launch window and a few days to launch as well so hopedully everything will go off without a hitch.

In the mean time the augustine commissions report is due on Thursday to the President and it could change evrything. So we will have to wait and see. It will probably be a while before the administration makes any decisions based on the report though so Ares 1-X should go off anyway.

SpaceCanada · Post by **SpaceCanada** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:02 am

The launch yesterday was interesting to say the least. I was a bit surprised that they didn't fire the second stage a bit or use some separation rockets to push the first stage away. I saw something, but not enough to push the two stages far enough apart. It looked a little awkward actually. Hopefully the scientists and engineers collected al the data they need and consider the launch successful.

PS - Was the second stage supposed to be spinning after separation? (I didn't have audio on my feed so I don't know what the telemetry folk were talking about.)

Boomerang · Post by **Boomerang** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:38 pm

According to simulations and the NASA press confrence the upper stage spinning like that right after seperation was not planned. They said they expected it to seperate and the momentum to carry it up and away before it started to tumble. They did say in the press confrence though that smulations did show this was a possible occurence so it wasn't something completely unexpected either. They didnt fire the second stage because it had no engine to fire it was a dummy stage nothing more though it was instrumented. They said everything system wise seemed to work as planned they just had the seperation go diffrently. I have heard some say it looked like the two may have even colided. A friend of mine at NASA says that doesnt appear to be the case but they even said in the press confrence it wasnt completely clear whether it did or not. More will be known when the flight recorder data on the booster is analysed once its back in port and studied.

NASA did also however say the flight was a complete success and alot was learned from the test. So now we just have to wait and see what the Obama administration decides also about the future of the program.

bnaivar · Post by **bnaivar** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:18 am

As much as I love the space program, I still say this was nothing more than a stunt. I mean, let's look at what was launched;

A 4 segment SRB, just like they've been launching since 1981.
1 dummy SRB section
1 dummy second stage
1 dummy capsule
1 dummy escape system

Did they ever try and launch a Saturn V with only the first stage live and the rest of the rocket dummy stages? No.

At the press conference they said that if they ordered a full-up Ares rocket today it would be three years before it would be ready, because the parts aren't available yet. So, what was the point of launching a bunch of empty casings?

I wonder if it had an egg in it.

Boomerang · Post by **Boomerang** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:45 am

Well they neve tried launching a saturn V with only an active first Stage but it was seriously considered. Von Braun actually wanted it tested in stages but program delays and high confidence in the equipment led to all up testing instead. The Saturn 1 however was tested multiple times with just the first stage active and a dummy upper stage.

As for the flight test. I'd say their were real things testd here. Obviously one thing they learned is something needs to change at stage seperation as it was not as expected. They also got a chance to see if the vibration problems that were feared have been resolved. Also the faster processing procedures for the booster and new parachute systems were tested. 'though the parachute system success right now is questionable it appears atleast one may not have been deployed or didnt stay deployed and their was damage to the lower section of the booster they are guessing from a harder impact with the water.

bnaivar · Post by **bnaivar** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:13 pm

The stage separation problem is an easy answer. With no engine to push it along, the empty second stage just started flying formation with the empty first stage.

Hotdog · Post by **Hotdog** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:12 pm

Boomerang wrote:Well they neve tried launching a saturn V with only an active first Stage but it was seriously considered. Von Braun actually wanted it tested in stages but program delays and high confidence in the equipment led to all up testing instead. The Saturn 1 however was tested multiple times with just the first stage active and a dummy upper stage.

As for the flight test. I'd say their were real things testd here. Obviously one thing they learned is something needs to change at stage seperation as it was not as expected. They also got a chance to see if the vibration problems that were feared have been resolved. Also the faster processing procedures for the booster and new parachute systems were tested. 'though the parachute system success right now is questionable it appears atleast one may not have been deployed or didnt stay deployed and their was damage to the lower section of the booster they are guessing from a harder impact with the water.

Great info, Jason! Saved me from having to go back and find all of that info myself. I was curious about the similarities between Ares flight testing and early Apollo flight testing. Alot of the overwhelming knowledge I had of the space program has gotten quite fuzzy in recent years.

Wasn't the Saturn I that stands in the rocket park one of the configurations that was flown with the dummy "boiler unit" upper stages?

Boomerang · Post by **Boomerang** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:05 pm

Just a bit of new information it appears 2 of the three parachutes may either not have opened or collapsed after opening. The booster was damaged but it was on a lower segment so it was not from any colision with the upper stage. These SRB segments were all past their life expectancy for manned use any so nothing lost hardware wise.

As for the Saturn 1 in the rocket park. No the one in the space and rocket center is configured as a 2 stage booster with both stages active atleast when they flew. The one in the rocket park is set up in a pegasus launch congiguration. Pegasus sattelites were used for micrometeorite research missions. The Saturn 1 at MArshall space flight center in its rocket park which noone gets to see anymore without special access is set up in a single stage launch configuration. That tyoe was used for project high water. Only the lower stage was active and the upper stage was filled with water for weight balast. The water was released into the atmosphere when the rocket was destroyed forming ice clouds.

Hotdog · Post by **Hotdog** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:03 pm

Ah yes, it was the Project High Water Saturn I at Marshall I was thinking of. Thanks for clearing that up!