The HabForum

3 August slots left, 5 for October

majtom7 wrote:So here we are, a little over 6 weeks until the August 3 day camp spread over 4 days, and still no listing of major activities. As an educated consumer, I am having a hard time with USSRC's customer unfriendly attitude. For example, if I sign up for a cruise, I know the stops and special events before I pay. The daily order of those is not available but I know what I am going to get. If I buy a packaged vacation, I know what I am getting for my money before I pay. Yet we're supposed to register, pay ahead of time, and find out what we're doing when we start?

I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'unfriendly' as I would more likely call it unfocused. Maybe the current and former staffers here can back this up, but I always got the impression that they plaid this by ear as to how many people were coming in any given session and how they're going to handle it. Especially with a 4-day session, I don't think they've ever done this for adults before (certainly not anytime recently, if ever), so it's hard for them to give a detailed schedule if they really don't have a solid idea of said timeframe.
Now, all that said, I do agree they should give people are a far better clue than they do. I've gone twice before, so I have a relative idea of what to expect on the same type of session, but with an extra day (I badly want them to fill that extra day with more sim time).

majtom7 wrote:That was fine for me the first 4 times yet as an older and wiser repeat customer with more options for spending my hard earned pay, I want to know what I am getting for my money.

I think that if you've gone 4 times already, this shouldn't come as any shock to you as you've seen this already.
But if it really bugs you this much, I see no harm in calling SC and asking to speak to someone in charge.

No one has asked them for a detailed schedule, just a listing of major activities, e.g., 3 shuttle missions, rocket construction & launch, multi axis & 1/6 trainers, AC, IMAX movie, team photo, mission patch. (That’s roughly the 3 day.) All I want is the major pieces, not the completed puzzle. The 4 day may be less attractive than the 3 day, depending on what they add. (I agree with you. I want that extra day to be mostly sim time, but shuttle sim time, not Orion.) Yet there is no way to know (without asking), there are no refunds, and the sessions for this year are filling up (and dwindling down) if you want to transfer. I plan on calling as you suggested by week’s end if I receive no response before then.

Others have asked the same question and the general response that they have received is that USSRC does not have a detailed schedule until a few weeks before a session starts. It is almost as if USSRC is not listening to what people are saying. That is a customer service problem.

BTW, the major activities were irrelevant for the 4 times, as I knew that they were 4 different camps going in. (first time - weekend camp, second time - 24 hour EDM, third time – 12 hour EDM, fourth time – parent/child)

majtom7 wrote:BTW, the major activities were irrelevant for the 4 times, as I knew that they were 4 different camps going in. (first time - weekend camp, second time - 24 hour EDM, third time – 12 hour EDM, fourth time – parent/child)

Yeah, but I doubt you had any greater picture ahead of time in any of those sessions, either. That's what I was refering to.
For what it's worth, I feel your pain and I do agree with your point, as I'm sure many others do as well.

"Guess what guys, it's time to embrace the horror!"
-'Rockhound' in the film, Armageddon

There was a certain commonality between the adult camps but you knew the major adds when you registered for Level II or ASA as the brochure had them. Corporate, you get what you pay for.

"Guess what guys, it's time to embrace the horror!"
-'Rockhound' in the film, Armageddon

Moon buggy with a mini gun & live ammo? NOW we're talking!

I would be happy with the Moon Buggy armed with paintball guns and ammo. Let's combine the EDM and the E&E, I say!!
I'm all for it!

Conan wrote:Let's combine the EDM and the E&E, I say!!
I'm all for it!

Funny, I said the same thing to 'Goose' on the flight home from Corporate camp last year: it would be really interesting if they incorporated both AC and SC into an EDM. Throw in a bit of Area 51 (as a Lunar or Martian surface) and you could get some really wicked 12 or 24-hour missions.

I called today and ended up leaving a message for the Camp Director.

The first answer I received was that the extra day would mean an extra mission. However, they would not know if it was an Orion or shuttle mission until they determined equipment availability a few weeks beforehand. It all depends on the camps in session at that time. I asked about the August camp schedule (since it starts in 6 weeks) but got the same answer.

Unfortunately, there is only limited information available about camps (unlike the old days when you could look at the brochure and see what was running concurrently). Looking at today’s registration info, there looks to be a few camps running concurrently in August, nothing in October. Yet there could be corporate or other unlisted camps.

USSRC wants a commitment from you yet seems unwilling to commit in return.

More to come later, one way or another....

No return call today....

Two thoughts occurred to me on the long commute home tonight.

First, why doesn't USSRC use standardized schedules for camp sessions? That would seem to be more cost effective instead of reinventing the schedule regularly.

Second, there is only one Space Camp session (per today's registration info) that runs the same time as the October 4 day. It ends on 10/10, the day the 4 day starts. Presumably, it is a half day in the morning, so it appears that there is nothing to schedule around in October. So there appears to be no apparent reason for being unable to get a listing of major activities (other than adjusting for lessons learned from August).

The August 4 day is somewhat different. There are three Space Camps that end on 8/8 but I'd guess that those would be half days in the morning. There are three that start on 8/10, probably half days in the afternoon. So there are no apparent conflicts for 8/9 & the morning of 8/10. Again, why no listing of major activities?

Admittedly, I have incomplete information and my assumptions could be wrong. (If they are, please say so.) Yet there appears to be no apparent reason for being unable to get a listing of major activities other than that's the way they do things.

3 August slots left, 2 for October

I all fairness, the number of sessions and people in each one varies so much from week to week, I understand why they can't have a fixed schedule.
For example, in 2012, I went to the adult SA program. There was only two teams and nobody else there. We all used the Enterprise orbiter for the sims.
The following year (I think the same week, the following year) had several foreign kid groups running around and adult SA had 4 teams, all filled up. My team got the Atlantis orbier for our sims and never got anywhere near the 'Big E'.
So, that said, I can see why a standardized schedule probably wouldn't work in any case, especially since your session this year is a 4-day one, something that has either never been done or at least not done anytime recently.

p51 wrote:I all fairness, the number of sessions and people in each one varies so much from week to week, I understand why they can't have a fixed schedule.
For example, in 2012, I went to the adult SA program. There was only two teams and nobody else there. We all used the Enterprise orbiter for the sims.
The following year (I think the same week, the following year) had several foreign kid groups running around and adult SA had 4 teams, all filled up. My team got the Atlantis orbier for our sims and never got anywhere near the 'Big E'.
So, that said, I can see why a standardized schedule probably wouldn't work in any case, especially since your session this year is a 4-day one, something that has either never been done or at least not done anytime recently.

Yes I agree. This four day program is new, if it comes off good, maybe we will got a shot to bring back a week long camp.

I agree to disagree. No one is asking for a detailed schedule, just a listing of major activities. No matter how many public and private camps are in session at one time, the USSRC has finite resources available, i.e., there are only so many hours in the day and so many simulators. There must be placeholders used to avoid overbooking. They are only going to give you so much for your money.

I am unsure how many people would be willing to commit the longer time and pay the higher price for a weeklong camp, especially without knowing what they are getting in advance.

I am attending the August camp, and having attended so many times before I know most of the major activities that can be included, although I am hoping there are some new and different Orion-based activities so that I will have something that I haven't done before. Still, I can understand your desire to know in advance. All I can say is for those attending in October, I will put in a full report when I return from the August camp so you will have some advance knowledge.

Thanks Conan. As a scheduled October Camper, I'll await your mission report with much anticipation.

- Justin

For those of you who are interested, I just got an email with the tentative schedule for the August 8 Adult 4-day camp. It looks pretty interesting. The first day Has registration, a movie (Magnificent Desolation) mission overview and mission positions. Team Photo and then the Hall of Fame Dinner. Second Day: Alpha training, alpha mission (90 min.) Low Ropes, Rocket Construction, Bravo Training, Bravo Mission (90 min.) Mission patch and then after dinner there is EDM training and EDM (3 hours). Day 3 has Space History , Lunar Mission Training, 1/6th chair, Orion Mission (2 hours) Zip Line, Finish Mission Patch, Rocket Construction, PT. 2 and Multi Axis. Day 4: Space Bowl, Rocket Launch and Graduation.
I wish that the EDM was longer but I am really looking forward to the Orion Lunar mission. I am glad that they listened and made the schedule heavy on missions too.

Sounds good so far!

Thanks Conan!

I hope they have the same schedule for the October 4-Day. I've never done an Orion mission, so that sounds great!

- J

Thanks for the update, I hope you have a great camp!!

Thanks for sharing, Conan.