Counseling Adults

A forum for discussion about, questions to, and general musings about the people that really make the Space Camp programs possible.

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rkolker
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Counseling Adults

Post by rkolker »

As a multi-time adult attendee of space camp, I've found some counselors "got it" about dealing with adults, and others just didn't have a clue.

For some of you who have been on either end of this equation, what do you think works when dealing with adults at space camp?
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Re: Counseling Adults

Post by des »

I definitely had an issue with the person who was the counselor for our session (but definitely not for AC). The counselors at AC were much more relaxed and just were themselves. I think that is a very key thing. There are probably some intergenerational issues but basically I think that we all get along pretty well (hey many of us are fellow space nuts!)-- but not if they feel they have to be smarter or righter.

Also I had a curious reaction to picture taking. The counselor made the comments that all I cared about were pictures. NOT so. But now I am really happy I have my pictures. So I think this must go in the area of empathy, to see things as you do not. I think that helps being a counselor for anybody though. It might esp. apply if you are working cross-culturally. And I think this is a cross-cultural issue anyway!

--des
rkolker wrote:As a multi-time adult attendee of space camp, I've found some counselors "got it" about dealing with adults, and others just didn't have a clue.

For some of you who have been on either end of this equation, what do you think works when dealing with adults at space camp?
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Re: Counseling Adults

Post by Richasi »

rkolker wrote:For some of you who have been on either end of this equation, what do you think works when dealing with adults at space camp?
For my first adult session, the counselor I had didn't really have a clue how to handle an adult group. To her credit, though, it was her first adult group. Hopefully by now - and I know she's still there because I spotted her at Alumni camp -- she's gotten better. The counselor experience I had then was not great.

For the alumni camp, I totally enjoyed Jeramy as a counselor. She "got it", she understood we were alumni and went to bat for us when we complained. She also let us do whatever we wanted at times, and, of course, kept us on schedule. I thought she did great.

My .02

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Post by Princess »

I was so greatful to have Jeramy she was outstanding !!! :D

That said, one of the things that I heard was that adults sometimes got very vested in what positions they wanted and could be difficult to deal with at times.

I think we are all big kids just more responsible then the little ones.
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Post by pilotgirl21 »

Yes, Jeramy seemed to fit right in with us and know how to handle us, even though all of us, except for 2 or 3 of us, were older than her.

She was doing head counts though, like we were little kids that she needed to keep track of...and then asked where some of us went off to. One of us did ask her why she was counting us and she said it was out of habit.

She did everything she could to keep us happy and satisfied with our weekend. She worked pretty hard to get us another mission.

I have never attended another adult session, so I really can't compare Jeramy to anyone else. But she did a pretty good job with us adults.
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Post by ApolloXI »

I thought Jeremy did a great job with us even those us where still like little kids losing our badges.
Last edited by ApolloXI on Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by monkeynautt »

I was worried that we would get a counselor that didn't want to lead a team of adults, but Jeramy did an awesome job.

I think it all depends on the counselor and some of them don't know how to adapt to leading adults. I've had some counselors who have said that depending on the group, adults can be difficult to deal with. And I've had others who loved to lead adult camps. I had one counselor who loved leading the parent/child teams. The views on adult camps vary from person to person and as I've only gone to the one adult session I have nothing else to compare it to.
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Post by gt0163c »

pilotgirl21 wrote:She was doing head counts though, like we were little kids that she needed to keep track of...and then asked where some of us went off to. One of us did ask her why she was counting us and she said it was out of habit.
I can relate to that. I'm a volunteer youth leader with my church and one of the things that I always seem to be put in charge of on outings or trips is the headcount whenever we're moving between places. I find that when I'm out with friends I sometimes do a quick headcount (normally not very obviously, unless you know what to look for), especially when we're getting into vehicles. It becomes a hard habit to break.
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Post by rkolker »

I think des's comment about cross-cultural communication starts to get to the core of the issue. It's really three way. The culture of the adults (which given the range of ages, can be several cultures in itself), the culture of the councilors, and the culture of the kids with which they normally work. Adults are used to being in charge of their lives, and so when attending something like Space Camp, it is an adjustment to be on someone else's schedule. Where you can tell kids what to do, a councilor needs to manage adults to move the program along. They need to listen as well as direct, because the adults have years, perhaps decades, of experience...not in flying the shuttle (although with a group like the alumni or Enterprise...that too) but in managing teams, organizing tasks and other areas of expertise which can be applied to the Space Camp experience. A good adult councilor will learn as much from his or her campers as vice versa.

In addition, for adults this is a fantasy camp. For kids, being an astronaut (or working in the space program) is still a career goal. The experience desired is different. I'm not looking for a return to summer camp, I'm looking to "be an astronaut" for the three or four or eight days I am there, just as baseball fantasy campers want to feel like major leaguers for their week. That means, the more the experience can be made to resemble the astronaut experience, the better.

Now, be fair to the councilors time. We adults can be a pain in the neck. We can be demanding. We expect to be listened to. We come to Space Camp with different expectations, particularly first timers. I have seen (and experienced) adult campers who were just impossible to deal with. Roll with the punches. Listen. Use your senior management if necessary to speak with impossible adult campers (every adult likes to talk to "the boss".) Don't let them ruin the experience of the rest of the group.

On the other hand, if you get a group of experienced adults, lucky you. They know the basics and are looking for challenges. Pull out those tough anomalies for the long duration sim you can't use with kids. Draw on their knowledge and expand the depth and breadth of your own. When Enterprise was coming to camp every year, we had lots of repeat councilors. They used to prepare for us and looked forward to stretching the program to its limits. We appreciated it.
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Post by Princess »

ApolloXI wrote:even some those us where still like little kids losing our badges.
ROTFLMAO....I forgot about that!!!
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Post by JennieM »

Personally, I loved working with the adults. I used to volunteer to work with both the Teacher Camps and adult camps. I felt like I could get away with more stuff with them and I could suggest different scenarios and they would be game. I always had a blast with them.
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Post by des »

Oh for sure (I wasn't, of course, thinking of cross-culture in any other but an age sense. I can imagine that working with adults would be entirely different. There are many types of concerns that are irrelevant to working with them-- and as others mentioned some of you have years of experiences with youth groups of various kinds. That's the experience that most counselors come in with.

I think the idea of managing time and activities and getting everybody fit in is more what you are doing with adults. Kids, as I know well, can be rowdy, inattentive, disruptive (adults can be rude, but rarely these other things.) I would have responded quite negatively to being told what to do, and that wasn't the particular counselor's problem (she might not have been good with anyone, who knows?)

I think there are similarities to working with gifted kids. One thing you need is the ability to say "I don't know" and feel secure about it. A lot of people couldn't work with gifted kids. Most people think "Gosh, I just don't know enough." But that is rarely the problem. Being able to say "I don't know", is a useful skill to get to regardless of your age, and an absolute necessity to working with adults. But you need a certain security to do that. I think some people would feel quite unnerved by this. I think a lot of the management issues (like crowd control, noise, etc.) are just not there with adults, so you can relax If adults want to stay up til 3 talking, they know the consequences!! (Of course, that said, we didn't have counselors watching out for us at bedtime. But you get the drift. There are natural consequences.)

I think the fantasy camp thing is a good point. In fact, Space Camp is listed as a fantasy camp in adult camp/recreation lists and so on. It is rarely listed that way for kids, most of whom will never be astronauts. My feeling is that for kids it is a way of getting them into science and technology in a very engaging way. Still some kids, probably more today than in the past, might be involved in some aspect of the space program as adults.

I agree adults can be a PITA in a different way than kids. Sometimes the pettiness is amazing. Some guy came up to me, because I was Commander (at the time they figured that out with a multiple choice question test), and said "you ruined it for me because I wanted to be Commander!" I am guessing he probably complained many times to the counselor on how he should have been Commander, and in retrospect, I might have gotten flack from the counselor because of flack she was getting. It is likely that he was belly-aching about this to anyone who would listen.


--des
rkolker wrote:I think des's comment about cross-cultural communication starts to get to the core of the issue. It's really three way. The culture of the adults (which given the range of ages, can be several cultures in itself), the culture of the councilors, and the culture of the kids with which they normally work. Adults are used to being in charge of their lives, and so when attending something like Space Camp, it is an adjustment to be on someone else's schedule. Where you can tell kids what to do, a councilor needs to manage adults to move the program along. They need to listen as well as direct, because the adults have years, perhaps decades, of experience...not in flying the shuttle (although with a group like the alumni or Enterprise...that too) but in managing teams, organizing tasks and other areas of expertise which can be applied to the Space Camp experience. A good adult councilor will learn as much from his or her campers as vice versa.

In addition, for adults this is a fantasy camp. For kids, being an astronaut (or working in the space program) is still a career goal. The experience desired is different. I'm not looking for a return to summer camp, I'm looking to "be an astronaut" for the three or four or eight days I am there, just as baseball fantasy campers want to feel like major leaguers for their week. That means, the more the experience can be made to resemble the astronaut experience, the better.

Now, be fair to the councilors time. We adults can be a pain in the neck. We can be demanding. We expect to be listened to. We come to Space Camp with different expectations, particularly first timers. I have seen (and experienced) adult campers who were just impossible to deal with. Roll with the punches. Listen. Use your senior management if necessary to speak with impossible adult campers (every adult likes to talk to "the boss".) Don't let them ruin the experience of the rest of the group.

On the other hand, if you get a group of experienced adults, lucky you. They know the basics and are looking for challenges. Pull out those tough anomalies for the long duration sim you can't use with kids. Draw on their knowledge and expand the depth and breadth of your own. When Enterprise was coming to camp every year, we had lots of repeat councilors. They used to prepare for us and looked forward to stretching the program to its limits. We appreciated it.
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