Question on Squadron names

Boomerang · Post by **Boomerang** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 6:39 pm

Maybe one of the AC counselors could answer this for me. I was sitting after school today waiting for the bus and happened to be wearing an AC tshirt and at the same time watching Several F-15 Eagles take off from Langley AFB and just started thinking about AC. Well then something occured to me that i really hadnt thought about much before. I know all the AC Mach 3 teams are named after F-14 squadrons The Red Rippers, Gohst Riders, Grim Reapers Etc. But according to the brochure AC Mach 3 uses F-15 simulators now. And even back when i went in 96 they were using F-16 (an air force plane) and F-4 (used by navy marine and air force) sims. So my question is why does AC use F-14 a navy plane squadron names. And has anyone considered changing them to air force aquadron names. Especially with the impending retirement of the F-14 in a few years. Don't know why i thought of this but i was just curious.

AC_Shrek · Post by **AC_Shrek** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:57 am

You are gonna have to wait for who or garfield to see this. I'm not sage enough to even try to touch this one. But i do know enough to say that they have expanded and are using some Air Force squandron names now as well like silver eagles. And some of the names you refer to as F-14 squandrons are already using F/A 18 Super Hornets which are one of the aircraft in the sims now. (and i only know that much cause i asked Aqua and Who)

Boomerang · Post by **Boomerang** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:29 pm

Ok well thank you for the update atleast. Granted its been 7 years since i was at AC and will probably never beable to attend again due to some physical problems in recent years so obviously i'm a little out of the loop on what squadron names and sims are used.

AC Garfield · Post by **AC Garfield** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:21 pm

Several of squadron names you mentioned are no longer in use at AC... Most commonly used are the Jolly Rogers, Pukin' Dogs, and Silver Eagles. No particular reason those are used over others... As Shrek said Mach3's use primarily the F-18 hornets for their training & missions, though the simulatiors are capable of being F-15s, T-38s &, A-10s currently (plus some additionals we should be getting soon.
Mach 2 teams are generally named after jet aircraft (eagle, phantom, etc.), while Mach 1 teams are all named for prop planes (mustang, liberator, etc.)

Boomerang · Post by **Boomerang** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:09 am

Ok well sounds like the naming scheme for the 3 programs is still the same. And i was basing F-15 on the brochure but thats cool. from what i understand when i was there the sims although they wewre actuaklly F-4 and F-16 cockpits could be changed into F-14, F-4, F-16 and F-18 .

AC_Shrek · Post by **AC_Shrek** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:31 am

Wow...Garfield didnt say I was full of it lol. I was hoping I got that all right

Who · Post by **Who** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:43 am

Your on the money Shrek. Those squadrons we use have shifted or are shifting over to F18s from the F14s. The days of the F14 are almost over..

However - why they market the SIMs at AC as F15s, Im not sure. Maybe because they are Eagle SIMs, made by Eagle Interactive.. They are simular to the F16 (the M2 and M3 cockpits). The M1s are more like a F14/15/18 with the center stick.

Squid · Post by **Squid** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:34 pm

Just a possibility as to why their were so many VF squadron names. Top Gun came out and was a huge public recruiting success. This brought the Tomcat into everyones mind and thus squadrons were chosen to represent this focus. On a bias side, I think it was because VF squadrons have such cool names and squadron patches.

Joker · Post by **Joker** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:40 pm

As a relatively old sage in the Ways of Aviation Challenge, you should see the squadron names that were *not* approved by Upper Management.

Like, "Death Rattlers."

Apparently the concept of teenagers wearing a shirt that had the camp's name and "Death Rattlers" on it wasn't appealing to the more squeamish types. Personally, I'd say that shirt would be a limited edition.

The official breakdown for the team names goes like this:

Mach I: Classic WWII aircraft (Warhawks, Mustangs, etc.)

Mach II: Aircraft from the modern era, though not specifically excluding props (Vietnam to present, like Phantoms, Eagles, Tomcats, Falcons, Hornets, Warthogs)

Mach III: Real actual military squadrons.

For the first several years of AC, the squadrons were exclusively naval or marine squadrons -- mostly because the senior staff that started AC came from the Navy. As time went on, and more Air Force aircraft could be modeled for the simulators, it was decided to "retire" some Navy squadrons (Red Rippers) and add an Air Force unit or two (like Silver Eagles, Triple Nickel, etc.).

Plus, the Mach III shorthand got confusing sometimes -- when the teams were "Rippers, Reapers, Riders and Dogs," it was easy to confuse the first two names. Especially when you're yelling across the lake.

With team sizes and numbers of teams in flux, some of the team names have come and gone, though there's no disrespect intended to the glory of the squadrons.

I also think that Graduation day just isn't Graduation day without somebody on the microphone saying "Mom's favorite, the World Famous Pukin' Dogs."

As for the sim-to-shirts tie-in, it's not that strong. The current sims are based on F-15 cockpits (they look like -15 pits, even down to the markings) because a contractor manufactures and sells the cockpits relatively affordably. I found the contractor back in 1998 or so, and when I left the Center, they were in the prototype phase. The two-seaters with canopies were developed largely due to the demand of the customer (in this case, AC.).

Before the F-15 mockups, the Mach III program used actual retired F-4 cockpits. I still miss them dearly, especially the center-stick models which used the original sticks and throttles from the Phantom trainers. They were just as tough to physically fly as the Phantoms, from what I'm told. You actually could get tired during hops flying those! Trainees would egress the cockpit rubbing their arms.

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:31 pm

Joker....a man of few words. Plus I got tired of all of the navy squadrons!!!!

Boomerang · Post by **Boomerang** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:54 pm

You mean they retired the Red Rippers at Ac now that just makes me mad.

Sandrat · Post by **Sandrat** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:25 pm

At least we never went through with a certain conversation about making the Mach III teams over into aerial demonstration teams.

Blue Angels, sure. Thunderbirds, sure. Russian Knights, maybe. Snowbirds, okay.

But the Frecce Tricolori? We'd have had a public relations nightmare! We'd have been accused of teaching trainees how to commit aerial suicide! (Speaking of which, not sure if you guys knew this or not - have a friend on the National Thunderbirds Foundation board - they relieved Number 6 after the accident and will be flying only five aircraft for the remainder of the season. Pilot error was the cause of the accident, too - started the maneuver too low....)

Besides all of that, how come there isn't a forum on here about the Berkeley phone calls.......

Question on Squadron names

Question on Squadron names

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