Someone Convince Me

[CastAway]

Well, the deal here is that I, MNathaniel, have never made it to AC. I don't plan to at this point due to the fact that it is so military-like. If they military structure was gone, I might give it a try... someone please try to convince me that it's worth it in the first place.

[Vincent]

If they military structure was gone

Careful! Those are fightin' words around this forum!

...I cannot personally guarantee your safety if you're going to talk like that!

[Space Nerd]

Its really not all that much like the millitary! Really! You should try it.

[CastAway]

Please elaborate. I want to convince myself. Maybe I'll go for the package then and do ASA and Mach III.

[Joker]

Just curious, because I think I'd need the answer before going further, but what bothers you about a "military-like" environment?

(and no, Vincent, those weren't fighting words. "The military sucks" would be fighting words. )

It's not a slam, just a concern, and I want to make sure we're on the same page before I address the question in depth.

AC doesn't try to make anyone do pushups or anything lame like that (believe me, I did enough as a Space Camp trainee in '85 -- and that was SPACE CAMP.). But it's a different experience than Advanced Space Academy, for sure. Not better, not worse, just different. I wrote another post in another topic to that effect -- I can PM you the link if you'd like.

But the AC program is very much modeled after a few programs rolled together. It's essentially Undergraduate Pilot Training, SERE School, and a basic intro to military aviation all in one. The framework is modeled after the military -- you're assigned to a "squadron", named after a real military unit, you're issued a flight suit, and you're expected to adhere to a fairly simple set of rules while you're in camp. You're also expected to act as a young professional whilst you're there, and your friendly counselor staff will remind you of this from time to time.

As a matter of observation, there's a lot less "card-playing" time at AC than some of the other programs (I only say this because I've seen posts about how much card playing was done in other programs). There's a lot more time outside, too. You'll probably get pretty dirty and sweaty in the process.

Above that, there's the expectation of achievement and challenge. You'll be urged to do things beyond what you've probably done before -- but so are real pilot candidates, and so are ASCANs. You really will be training, pretty much all the time. There's still time for volleyball and rec time, but not a lot. Most activities build upon each other. Each sim event will lead to the next, and there's a lot of headwork involved to do them well.

If you're up for getting a little dirty, sweaty, and doing some nonstop learning during your session at camp, I recommend AC. The "military" environment at AC is a product of its creation, just as being surrounded by blue paint and big shiny cockpits and computers, and the UAT, is a product of the space focus of ASA, for example.

There are a lot of parallels to be found. If you're further interested, PM me or ask in the forum.

Cheers,
Joker

[Benji]

Nothing bothers me about a military-like environment. I'd enjoy it a bit. I need to do pushups, but I'm too lazy to do them unless I'm ordered to (by a hockey coach, for example).

I'd love to go to AC, there just aren't dates I can go.

[Boomerang]

Well that was a good descriuption Joker. And oi know when i was at AC i never had to do a single pushup and i dont remember anyone else having to do any either. Now when i went to academy in 93 i remember them waking us up early one morning for PT and it went over so badly we never had to do it again. But seriously AC wasnt that bad i really enjoyed it. If your not an outdoor person it might not be for you but i think its worht giving a try.

[spacecampaddict28]

Okay somehow I had to do lots of pushups when I went to AC in '99. Their whole theory seemed to be that if you curse like a sailor, then you can do push ups like one. I think everyone on our team at one point in time was all lined up across the sidewalk doing pushups.

[spacecampaddict28]

I think I have seen this somewhere before! Okay back to AC (see I can be on topic)....MNathaniel, you should go because from what I hear they have redone the program to be better.

[Space Nerd]

I think (but im sure there will be objections to this statement) that i was the person most recently at AC on the forum i went last summer.

It is VERY different from ASA but its differnt in its own way i would say that it is a very unique experience thats definitly worth a try even if there are things you dont like you will still come out of the program with extra knowlege. The way it was explained by the counselor who posted earlier was pretty much exactly what i thought the program to be like from a camper point of view. Its very fun and i urge you to check it out a little before deciding completely that you dont want to go. anyway i hope this was helpful to you.

[Who]

Both camps are very similar in many respects - One has the aire of space and exploration, while the other is based in military fighter combat. However, both programs you must work as a team to meet the goals of the missions.

What it boils down to is this, if your the type of person that enjoys science and space, doing expirements and dont like the thoughts of harming others or getting <too> dirty go with ASA.

If you like to rumble in the mud, blow the heck out of digital buildings and shooting down Black Knights, go with M3.

They're both fun and both will be an exprience for a trainee.

[HighSpeed03]

Well put, Who!

[Ace McFly]

Greetings and Salutations (Sports Fans)

To shed my light and give my 2 cents on this topic.

Aviation Challenge was created so that Trainees could experience a taste of what most of the Astronaut Corps had to go through in their careers to get to the point where they are today. Yes, we do take you beyond basic "Fighter-Pilot training." You will be pushed, but in positive ways. You will have to learn to work on your own, but also with a team. You will be overloaded with information. But it teaches you how to deal with events and situations that you have never had to deal with before. The main overall goal, is for you to learn something, have fun with it/doing it, and maybe apply it somewhere else in your life.

Good Luck , and Carry On

[ethlar04]

Aviation Challenge is nothing to be afraid of, I've been going for three years and loved it every time. The programs are great, and unlike Space Camp, there are fewer briefings and I think more sim time. The military aspect isnt as bad as it looks from the view of a space camper in the mess hall. Yes you have to put on BDUs and crawl in the mud but its fun. Aviation Challenge has been one of the greatest experiences in my life. I suggest that anyone considering it should go for it.

[Squid]

I will have to agree with everyone above. The military aspect of AC is not what everyone thinks it to be. Its not Platoon with constant yelling in your face and physical punishment.

The design of AC was to explore the method of training for those who wish to have positions as Mission Commander and Pilot. These people have to have 1000's of hours of Jet stick time and the most likely way to get this is through the military.

What is emphasized is teamwork, preparation, and having fun. This is done through the different missions. Be it in the flight simulators, during the Helo Dunker, learning about land or water survival or my favorite E&E.

My time will always be memorable, both from the other counselors but more importantly with the fun I had with the trainees

[Repeat]

In 1999, I went to Mach II, and in 2000 I went to Mach III. Both of those years, they woke us up early, and we did pt (mandatory), and if you cursed, you did push-ups, and in 2000, my mom sent me a package, and I had to do jumping jacks to get it... But after 2000, the counselors were no longer allowed to do any of that... So the military level is taken down quite a bit from what it used to be. There's a lot more activities that are hands-on and out-doors, and less boring lectures that last for over an hour, on a topic that should have been covered in fifteen minutes. So if you like being outdoors and being active (unless of course, it's storming, in which case, most of the outdoor activities get canceled and you stay inside and watch movies.... grrr), it's great. The Mach III sims are AWESOME, and the Zip line is fun (though I hate the stairs...).. I would reccomend AC to ANYONE and EVERYONE, because it's just so much fun. It's a non-stop rush, and they keep you busy from the time you wake up until knock-out, and you're a lot more active physically, than you are at ASA. So go for it - you'll have fun.

[spacecampaddict28]

...and if you cursed, you did push-ups, and in 2000, my mom sent me a package, and I had to do jumping jacks to get it... But after 2000, the counselors were no longer allowed to do any of that...

Hah! I was wondering when they stopped doing that, because when I went we seriously did push-ups or jumping jacks for everything. If one kid on the team cursed then we all did push-ups! ahhhhh well usually it was my fault, but shhh whatever.

[Benji]

See, I happen to like the whole jumpin' jacks/push-ups mindset. It isn't going to change my mind, but the exercise would be good for me.

[Repeat]

i liked it too - i complained when i came back and it was gone. That, and I miss D&C / knockout games... But then, I'm just a military freak (note: in less than three weeks, I will be leaving for Navy ROTC Indoctrination...)

[spacecampaddict28]

I am glad that some people really like the idea of being in the military, because I don't think they want me nor do I want to.....I agree with Benji though, excersise at AC would be good for me. I even lose weight going to camp just from the walking....