Knight 81

A place for ACers to come and hang out after a hard day of escape-and-evade or survival training.

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Knight 81

Post by Spanky »

Hey Rat do you remember a Knight 81?
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Post by Sandrat »

I'd have to look up the original list. I thought 81 was Juice?
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Post by Spanky »

I can't remeber for sure....I'll have to go to the Knight Cave and dig up the roster and check it out. Do you have a roster at hand?
"We only have a short time to live, so it is essential to do things that are worthwhile and to do them now."Lord Baden-Powell

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Post by Sandrat »

I'll have to see if I can find my original list.

That being said, there were a lot of un-used numbers, but I can only remember those there during my time. Some of the counselors you had while I was up-top I didn't know. :roll:
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Post by Spanky »

We quit using the numbers by 2001. When I went back in 02 we did not use any of those.
"We only have a short time to live, so it is essential to do things that are worthwhile and to do them now."Lord Baden-Powell

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Post by Sandrat »

Really? Is that when you stopped giving patches out?
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Post by SpaceCanada »

Care to explain this more to us un-knighted folk?
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Post by Spanky »

Yes this is correct.
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Post by Spanky »

OK SpaceCanada....I'll try to give you an idea.

Back in 1996 , several counselors came up with the idea of getting the trainees more sim time. We were able to up it from 5.5 hours to a little over 12 hours when I left in 2004. We added mission, specific training sorties, etc. But the main goal was to get the trainess ready for Top Gun. To help get the trainees more DACM (Dissimlar Air Combat Manuvering) we develop an adversary program that could help the trainees. So in 1996, we established the 77th Tactical Fighter Squadron....better known as the Black Knights. We would fly mission against the trainees to encourage them to "push the envelop" in the sims and work harder on the manuvers. We would debrief after mission and discuss what worked and did not work. It became a great teaching tool allowing us to help better the overall training experience. But it took a good counselor to know how to use this in training. Some used it to show how many "kills" they could get and others were so bad at it that they would get shot down before taking off or engaging the trainees. (That's a whole nother set of stories... :D )

As far as the numbers go, we used to have a board posted in the bubble that tracked how many mission and kills each Knight had made. To keep the trainees from knowing which Knight was which counselor....we used numbers to ID each other. Once we adopted that number....you kept it and when you left the program, your number was retired.....if you were really good.

It was a program that we were really proud of and became very popular with the trainees.
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Post by Boomerang »

As i recall on some of the team missions some members of the Knights would also take the simes of shot down trainees and flky as agressors in 96. I know during my teams mission at the end of the week this was the case. We had 2 planes left and duddenlt there were i think 3 new ones maybe it was 4. However many it was Streaker and i git 2 of you before one of the knights git us.
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Post by Knight 81 »

Spanky & Sandrat: My callsign in my last year at AC was "Knight". This was the summer of 2003. I was on the Gunslingers. As for teh 81; my older brother was shot to death a few years ago, since then I have used his number "81" as mine in memory. I do want to thank you for thinking I was to the level of the Black-knight squadron I had heard much about, but to be honest, I was never a good flyer. It's also sad to think about it though. The Black-Knights were dispanded, both of you left the program (which I can not fault you for), and the program has sucked ever since. Even when I was there my first year to my last it went down hill everytime. That last year the senior instructors did everything in there power to preserve, I guess what it was from there memories. I don't believe it was the AC Instructors fault either. If you were to ever put a camp together I believe old and young staff and trainees would support it, in everyway. As for any information I may have, it is save with me. What the person in question said is sick and twisted. I have no problem with Instructor-trainees remaining in contact. They become more then just instructors at a camp but; mentors, leaders, and friends. I'm sure you have given advice to past trainees after the summer was over. But that is as far as it goes. Again please forgive the name. The Black-Knights didn't even cross my mind when I was setting this up.
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Post by Spanky »

No problem Knight 81!!

Rat and I got excited...we thought we had found another one out there. We have lost track of many Black Knight....although some are out defending us as we speak. Please continue to honor your brother....we should all be so bold. Best of luck to you and thanks for the kind words.

Spanky
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Post by ACluvR »

The Black Knights... Nothing like a T-Ops, Ready 5 smackdown... by one black night. lol. Wow... those were the days before things changed. But I have to disagree somewhat with Knight 81... although I really, really hated the changes at AC over time (my first Mach 3 was in 00 and last in 03 so I saw some of the bigger ones), the more I look back on it the camp still had the same heart last time I attended... even if people up top wanted to mess everything up, those guys kept on chugging trying to make us happy still... That's why AC is such an awesome awesome place... (I should be a market person, lol).
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Post by SpaceCanada »

Thanks for the Black Knight information. I figured it was something like that, but not in so much depth. It explains a lot. Too bad the 77th TFS has been disbanded. I'm sure it was great while it lasted.
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Post by Sandrat »

Oh, there's much more to the story. We had false "character names" and fake intelligence dossiers about the Knights. Kept the trainees guessing the entire time. We even went so far as to create fictional stories, which one day we hope to add to and publish.

The Black Knights, while no longer part of the mythos of Aviation Challenge, will never die.

Knight 81 - thank you for the compliments, and don't go changin' that user name or anything like that. You keep it. Though if you run into Juice, if that really was who Knight 81 was, he's a little on the intimidating side (6'4" and about 300lbs).

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Post by MAYTAG »

last time i was there in 2004 they weren't using things like numbers and such but the 77th, black knights were still being used as an agressor in this case as a mercinary squadron working for the enemy in the ardan scenario
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Post by Spanky »

We still used the numbers....you guys did not know it. We went away from the number id to the kids in about 99/2000.
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Post by MAYTAG »

that was your last summer there wasn't it?
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Post by Sandrat »

I left the program in the fall of 1999 to run Space Camp. Spanky stayed on and kept fighting the good fight.
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Post by MAYTAG »

yeah that was who i meant i know he was there for at least my first mach III experience but i cant remember if he was there for the second or not
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ASA-July 5-11, 2003
Mach III- July 12-18, 2003
Mach III- July 3-9, 2004 Gunslingers (Callsign:Tiny)
ASA- July 10-16 Oberth
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