Toxic team members

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Toxic team members

Post by Hotdog »

Here is a horrible blog from two people who attended "adult" camp recently.

One of the wonderful things about Space Camp is the melting pot of people you get on your team, from all places, backgrounds and all walks of life. As great as this can be, it can also be a huge pitfall, because all it takes is one or two toxic people with bad attitudes to bring down an entire team and ruin the experience for the rest of the group.

This blog post illustrates the naive and close-minded way these toxic people view Space Camp, in their own words. Read it so you can identify these types of idiots if you go to Space Camp and find them on your team.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/adult-sp ... nd-we-went
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by p51 »

I've had some people on teams at SC who were bordering on toxic but managed to reign it in. A competing team in 2012 had plenty of them, thank goodness our team rocked.
But I don't see these people being toxic as such. They're typical bloggers, trying to sound smarter than they probably are.
Seriously, they went to Space Camp and didn't know there's be a bundle of kids running around? Were they surprised that there was space stuff there, too?
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by Richasi »

I can't say that I've ever been on a bad team - as a child or as an adult, but I can say there have been some toxic members - a number of kids not really into the whole space thing who were sent by their parents just because. Other than that, I'd also say I've run up against a couple of adults in my time who, if you'll pardon this, take it a bit TOO seriously. It's one thing to get in the spirit of camp, and want to perform as a real team of astronauts would, but it's another to be a total jerk and suck all the fun out of it.

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Re: Toxic team members

Post by p51 »

Richasi wrote:I can't say that I've ever been on a bad team - as a child or as an adult, but I can say there have been some toxic members - a number of kids not really into the whole space thing who were sent by their parents just because. Other than that, I'd also say I've run up against a couple of adults in my time who, if you'll pardon this, take it a bit TOO seriously. It's one thing to get in the spirit of camp, and want to perform as a real team of astronauts would, but it's another to be a total jerk and suck all the fun out of it.
Good points. The two times I've been (both in the Adult program), each time there have been people who had been given the experience as a gift or went there because of friends of spouses. In most cases, they wound up having fun anyway. The first time I went, I was the pilot on the orbiter for the Charlie mission and the commander came with three friends so it wasn't her big thing to be there. She admitted after the mission that she was getitng tired of all those switches and stuff, but then had fed off my enthusiasm and energy, to at least the degree that she enjoyed it anyway when it was all over. She said the smile on my face just couldn't be ignored. I felt really good about helping to make her experience in the left seat more enjoyable to some degree, even if it was totally unintentional.
But last time, there was one guy for sure who just wasn't enjoying himself at all. I thought he was sick at one point but he said he was fine. He just clearly didn't seem to enjoy himself one bit. But in all fairness, he didn't make a deal about that at all. I respected him greatly for that, in that he might not have had the time of his life, but he wasn't going to ruin it for everyone else.
As for people taking it too seriously, I haven't seen that yet. I assume I will, eventually, though. I've wondered if that happens sometime among the 'corporate' program groups to a higher degree, in that to do a program like that you really must wanna get the full experience.

But as for the blog in the initial post, what do the rest of you think? Were these people being 'toxic' or were they just typical bloggers (and New Yorkers)?
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by Phoenix PK »

I've definitely encountered a few toxic team members, but thankfully they are rare. One such person, for example, made a scene during the patch design session, insisting that SHE was the one to design the emblem, and verbally attacked anyone who opposed her. She created numerous other awkward and uncomfortable moments during the week.

A few years back, one guy on the other team was doing back-to-back week-long sessions. When he showed up at the first group orientation meeting in Corporate 1 for the second week, he was wearing sunglasses, arms crossed, leaning back in his chair, all the signs of a superiority complex. He immediately began rubbing his teammates the wrong way and then had a major clash with one of them on Day 2, a smart first-timer dentist. And then, on Day 3, he was nowhere to be seen. HE LEFT FOR HOME!!! Can you believe that? Still amazes me.

There are a couple other examples from my experiences, but I'm trying to forget them!

Again, these people are very rare and thankfully don't return.
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by majtom7 »

I read their blog and thought that it was fine. The biggest thing in coming to camp is expectations and certainly, one expectation for a first timer is a good night's rest. That one is blown the first night when you find out that the Hab is noisy and never is quiet, even when it's adults only.

I'm unable to remember any toxic team members. Just have to remember there is no I in TEAM....
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by Phoenix PK »

Yeah, I, too, didn't see anything wrong in the blog posting. I've read MUCH worse...

Our younger colleagues can be a little annoying to some of us, but I mostly see $ signs when I look
at them. Camp wouldn't be viable without them.

No "i" in "Team" is absolutely right.
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by SpaceCanada »

Phoenix PK wrote:Our younger colleagues can be a little annoying to some of us
If only they would stop doing the Chicken Dance everywhere... sheesh... someone get those anklebiters under control. ;) (inside joke)

The article wasn't toxic but it certainly wasn't good either. It is difficult to tell if they enjoyed their experience, but it looks like they did.

I agree with most of you, that toxic team members exist, but, thankfully, are rare. I have encountered one for sure, as a youth, but she pretty much alienated herself from the group and the counsellors dealt with her more than we did. She was sent to camp by her parents and wanted nothing to do with it. I felt bad for my counsellors that week - we could see this person wearing them down as the week progressed. She went home a day early too, whether that was her choice or the counsellors' we were never told.

Then again, PK, remember that New Jersey (?) high school team that was there during our October 2013 session? WOW! You want toxic... many of them were counting down until they could go home, telling off counsellors, refusing to do sims, etc. YIKES!
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by p51 »

That blog has some interesting points:
-They took their team photo in the Davidson building. I had never seen a group photo taken indoors before (both of mine were on that well-worn patch of grass behind the Pathfinder stack). I wonder if it was raining at the time (their model rocket launch got rained out), or if that’s a new thing?
-They had graduation in the sim area. I wonder what the story is for that.
-They’re both wearing the new logo shirts, so I assume that supports that everyone is sporting 'Gumby' now at SC...
SpaceCanada wrote:Then again, PK, remember that New Jersey (?) high school team that was there during our October 2013 session? WOW! You want toxic... many of them were counting down until they could go home, telling off counsellors, refusing to do sims, etc. YIKES!
I couldn't imagine being like that if I'd been able to go at that age. But then again, they were from New Jersey (sorry, that's a Southern native joke). If that'd been me, I'd have been dreading the day I had to leave.
When I think of how badly I wanted to go to SC and how it was never going to be an option growing up, it just kills me when kids get the opportunity and don't take advantage of it.
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by Phoenix PK »

Speaking of Toxic Crewmates, have I ever told y'all about this one with the call sign "Braids?" She...

Just kidding, of course. We would all be be incredibly lucky to have her and Goose on our team.
Talk about +1s who ENHANCE the experience but act like 0s (using Chris Hadfield's astronaut
rating scale, you'll have to read his book to understand)...

I vaguely remember the high schoolers from NJ, but I'm so focused there, a lot of extraneous
stuff doesn't stick. I'm with Lee, if I'd have known about Camp when I was younger...crap,
Camp didn't exist when I was younger...anyway, I would have been in Heaven every minute.

I remember watching TV coverage of the Gemini missions. OK, I'm an Old Gummer.

P.S. We did a Team Photo at the LM in 2011 and I think we also did one on the grass.
I'll have to check. Our RS award winner sent us all a coffee cup with the LM photo
on it, one of my most treasured Camp mementos.

P.P.S. We had our graduation on the Sim Floor last year. No biggie for us.
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by p51 »

Phoenix PK wrote:I remember watching TV coverage of the Gemini missions. OK, I'm an Old Gummer.
Yeah, some of the 20-somethings I was with on my team my first time at SC couldn't get over me recalling seeing Apollo 15 and 17 lifting off. It's hard to think that there's an entire generation of adults who only remember the STS...
Phoenix PK wrote:P.P.S. We had our graduation on the Sim Floor last year. No biggie for us.
Heck, I think I'd prefer that over the auditorium room where both of my graduations have been... I know they sometimes have them by the LEM at the Davidson center, I've seen youtube videos of them there. I'd LOVE to have one there.
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by Phoenix PK »

Lee, you did get the memo that we're dropping the "E" in "LEM," right? Plus, the Tindallgrams. I'd love
to hear your replies to some of Bill's...insights...

P.P.P.S. Does anyone want to start a thread on the opposite of the posited topic, a type of Teammate who makes
Camp a much greater experience than if they hadn't been there? My list is gonna take some time to compile.
I have a lot of jokes there, but this is a family-friendly site, after all.
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by p51 »

Phoenix PK wrote:Lee, you did get the memo that we're dropping the "E" in "LEM," right?
It's still how the crews on the surface said the term. They always said, "Lem" as opposed to... well... how would you say LM without saying it as, "El-Em," like it was Superman's cousin or something?
Phoenix PK wrote:Does anyone want to start a thread on the opposite of the posited topic, a type of Teammate who makes Camp a much greater experience than if they hadn't been there.
I can't think of a type as such. I just know I've dealt with individuals who certainly made the experience great. For example, my pilot on my last STS mission I was the commander on. She was a lawyer by trade and very detail oriented. She was like a freaking cyborg with all those switches. We made what I think was an outstanding team in the front office of the orbiter. I had mad wicked stick and rudder skills (so to speak, the sims don't have rudder pedals, darn it) and she was all over everything else. We greased that landing, I'd have given anything to have seen what that landing looked like on the monitor. But without her amazing speed, I couldn't have gotten that orbiter on the ground like that alone. But really other than that, I never knew a thing about her.
My team from 2012 was, almost to a person, a great group of people, we all had a common goal right out the gate. But I wouldn't say any of them were a 'type' as such...
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by Conan »

I agree that with my best teams, it was really everyone who made the experience great. A bond like that is priceless. We met for Reunions for a couple of years after. Set up an email list. Got our patch put on hats, t-shirts, sweatshirts and just as a nicely embroidered patch. That kind of chemistry didn't come from just one type of person.
Yeah, some of the 20-somethings I was with on my team my first time at SC couldn't get over me recalling seeing Apollo 15 and 17 lifting off. It's hard to think that there's an entire generation of adults who only remember the STS...
Yes, I was watching Apollo 11 when the moon landing happened. And John Glenn's Gemini mission, though I was quite young then. What is really sad is that in a few years there will be many children who have no memories of a space shuttle flight, other than what they see on a DVD of Gravity. That really bothers me.
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Re: Toxic team members

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Phoenix PK wrote:I remember watching TV coverage of the Gemini missions. OK, I'm an Old Gummer.
If you're an Old Gummer, I can't imagine what you'd classify me as! I remember the TV being rolled into our 2nd grade classroom and two other classes cramming in with us to watch Alan Shepard's first flight! 8)

The blog pretty much comes off as two 20 something Noo Yawkers trying to be 'cool'. They did come on the weekend where one of our largest school groups attends. They all dress in color coded tee shirts. It's rather intimidating! :lol: Overall, I don't think it was that bad of a report. The important thing is it got the message out that there IS an adult Space Camp program.

Yes, the alternate location for Space team photos is in front of the LEM in the Davidson. It was rainy that weekend. The Saturn V hall is also the location for large graduations. Challenger just isn't big enough to have 10 teams of kids, plus their estimated 3.5 guests, each. It's a pretty awesome venue for the event! We do them there during the summer, which beats the heck out of doing them under Pathfinder in 90+ temps! (Very appreciated by the staff that has to set up and take down all of those chairs in that heat!) Occasionally small graduations are done on the MCC floor, as this one was. Remember that monster school group? They were having their graduation in Challenger at the same time. We try not to mix program grads.
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by Hotdog »

street wrote:
The blog pretty much comes off as two 20 something Noo Yawkers trying to be 'cool'. They did come on the weekend where one of our largest school groups attends. They all dress in color coded tee shirts. It's rather intimidating! :lol: Overall, I don't think it was that bad of a report. The important thing is it got the message out that there IS an adult Space Camp program.
Well they failed miserably at the "cool" factor. The language really seemed like they were putting the experience down. But I suppose there's "no such thing as bad publicity" so I agree that at least it gets the message out about the existence of adult Space Camps.
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Re: Toxic team members

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Hotdog wrote:Well they failed miserably at the "cool" factor.
Agreed. Street called it, "Noo Yawkers trying to be 'cool'" is accurate. As are you with how they failed at it. I bet if you were on the team with them, they might not have been like that in person. Folks of their ilk (never bene a big fan of ilk) usually are like that.
Hotdog wrote:The language really seemed like they were putting the experience down.
I can sort of see that. But again, I think they just wanted to come across as 'too cool' for an experience they travelled a long way and shelled out some bucks to do. Again, typlical blogger type.
Hotdog wrote:But I suppose there's "no such thing as bad publicity" so I agree that at least it gets the message out about the existence of adult Space Camps.
I agree fully there. I think if anything came across badly, it was more the people writing it than their actual experience. Any adult with a brain would be able to see that, even if they'd never gone to SC before...
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by airkale »

I think there were a handful of different dynamics at play here with these two folks.

First issues is that these folks didn't go to Space Camp as kids.

Second, they didn't sound like they were space geeks like most of the alum are.

Third, is that Space Camp is pretty geared to kids. I can imagine adults that aren't mentally aware or ready for what the experience is going to be like would easily be disappointed with things like the sleeping arrangements, cafeteria, etc.

I think the fact that they didn't have the kid point of view makes a big difference. Coupled with the blogger type personality, it makes sense as to what they posted.
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Re: Toxic team members

Post by p51 »

Does anyone know what session they went to? I looked at the SC misison patches and want to know which one beat their team's patch design (assuming it's even on the listing, they went to a facebook thing and seem to have abandoned the old winning design portion of the SC website).
airkale wrote:First issues is that these folks didn't go to Space Camp as kids.
Good point. Having only gone as an adult (and none of the people I've been to SC with as adults ever admitted to having gone as kids), I can see where it might confuse people in regards to what to expect.
airkale wrote:Third, is that Space Camp is pretty geared to kids. I can imagine adults that aren't mentally aware or ready for what the experience is going to be like would easily be disappointed with things like the sleeping arrangements, cafeteria, etc.
True. I'm ex-military and am pretty familiar with what they really do with crews at Houston, so none of the life at Camp came as a shock to me. I wasn't sure how something seemingly kid-oritented would be done for adults. I was a little worried it'd be too dumbed-down for me. I was pleasantly surprised to find that wasn't the case for the most part and loved the experience.
But yeah, I can see where someone just coming without knowing what to expect might be let down in some regards. Especially a couple of 'Noo Yawk' blogger types...
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