Pre-modern Sims

The place where campers hang out after a long day in the sims.

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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by Boomerang »

No though this was done as part of the Constellation upgrades as the vehicle i mentioned above, they built an Orion Capsule and Altair lander which from what i here have seen limited use but they are still working out the bugs. It can be seen here though not the best shot of it http://30daysoftravel.com/files/2012/11 ... 40x426.jpg and a quick glimpse inside Orion http://spacecampolson.files.wordpress.c ... 47bd_o.jpg
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by p51 »

Boomerang wrote:It can be seen here though not the best shot of it http://30daysoftravel.com/files/2012/11 ... 40x426.jpg and a quick glimpse inside Orion http://spacecampolson.files.wordpress.c ... 47bd_o.jpg
Yeah, I could see where getting a good photo of the inside would be for the most part impossible without an extreme wide-angle lens.
In 2012 I got the impression from a few people at SC that the day of the STS sims were ending. The problem is nobody really knws for sure what that new system will be. You read books written around 2010, and they're all about the Orion and Altair. Now, everyone is talking about the SLS. But a few years from now, who knows? I got the impression last year that maybe SC is hanging back, waiting to know for sure what system to model future sims off of.
I feel for the planners, SC was started well into the STS era and was able to stick with that until recently. An orbiter sim gets several people 'flight' time and a linear mission like any normal airplane flight simulator. You could accomplish the same overall theme with a B-52 sim and having crew go into the bomb bay to deal with an errant bomb hung up on the racks.
With capsules, that's a totally different thing. Neither launch nor recovery of the capsule is well simulated in a horizontal sim on the sim floor. At least landing an orbiter felt 'right' in the attitude it's in when you climb into it.
With the adult programs, you could do the STS sims for a long time because all current adults grew up with the shuttle. But I wonder if (or when) the day will come when the orbiter sims are shut off for the last time and broke up.
When I go back to SC this year, I'll be just fine with walking past the Orion capsule again as it sits there unused in our session. But that said, the day will have to come when the orbiter leaves the sim floor as it did from the SC logo...
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by Boomerang »

I think Camp went the right direction in building an Orion capsule since it seems to be the one program that keeps geting caried over. Hopefully SLS will now be the launch vehicle and it doesnt get changed again. And Orion is scheduled to make its first unmanned test on a diffrent vehicle later this year hopefully it goes well if i recall corectly the first SLS test flight is scheduled for 2017 which is into the next admionistration so who knows but hopefully if it stays on track it will go forward. Seems rediculous to cancel something that close to its first test but then it wouldnt be the first time but if it happens that way and it is canceled i think NASA is dead as far as manned space flight and only commercial is the future i hope it will go forward. I do agree a capsule reentry in a horizontal sim isnt as realistic but its better than nothing i guess and most of the space camp sims have always done launch in horizontal. Even the two motion based ones never went fully vertical.

Speaking of manned spaceflight i have been told in the last year or so Space Camp has plans for a Dragon and Dream chaser sims as well. Not sure when these will come in though either. I was told about the plans over a year ago.
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by SpaceCanada »

Here's one of my photos from inside the Orion simulator:
Image

Whilst there in October, we were assured that Enterprise will stay as a shuttle sim into the future, as it is so widely known and was the primary form of human spaceflight for so long.
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by p51 »

SpaceCanada wrote:Image
Wow, I'd forgotten how few controls that sim had. One thing's for sure, you won't spend half the mission turning on and off the APUs! :wink:
SpaceCanada wrote:Whilst there in October, we were assured that Enterprise will stay as a shuttle sim into the future, as it is so widely known and was the primary form of human spaceflight for so long.
That's good to hear, the orbiter is all SC ever knew, imagine an adult doing like I did, hitting the place for the first time while approaching their mid-life crisis, then coming to SC finally, only to find that they’ve junked all the orbiter sims beforehand? 8O
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by Boomerang »

The new sim may not have much in the way of controls but neither does the actual Orion. From the designs i've seen much of it will be touch screen and much more modern then the shuttles or older spacecraft. Should save some space for living area. Granted even NASA doesnt have all that worked out yet but they are working on the control and interior design. there is an Orion mockup at JSC designed just for working on cabin ergonomics.
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by airkale »

You know when I heard of the orion sims coming around, it totally flashed in my mind that it would be awesome to have an Apollo type sim to use. Obviously, first off it would be cool because its Apollo, I think that carries it's own right there. Also, like was being said earlier, the Orion cockpit is pretty desolate, but the Apollo CM and LM were old school steam gauges and switches just like the orbiters. That would surely keep everyone busy just like APU's and GPC's on the orbiter.

One thing Apollo, STS, and Orion sims all have in common now... they are all history. Kinda funny to think about. Hate to say it but I don't think a new program is going to replace the STS era that we whitnessed. Its going to be a while before we have a Nasa vehicle again, and even when we do its not going to be crazy popular like the STS was to kids(us). That has gone away just like airline pilots used to be the movie stars of thier day. Now a days, kids play video games, and thats whats cool to them. My son loves all the stuff that I do because he is my son, but most kids don't really get a huge draw to space flight anymore. Its just sad, but thats life. Good thing is, old people like us have money and are willing to give it to the USSRC to play with thier toys!

On another happier note, I pitched my idea to Vincent today to create a sub site about the sims, the USSRC, the buildings, and the exhibits kinda like the Field Guide to American Space craft. So far he is ignoring me. :-) I don't think he let me get to the part where I said I would do the work. There is so much history at the USSRC that is not represented on the web. You have to research things to find answers to things we have been talking about in this and other recent threads on the hab boards that should be readily availible for everyone to share. After all, they are just as much of an artifact as the actual equipment. I would love to have a site where the history of things like the training floor, the sims, the parts of the museum, and all the evolution could be showed off for guys like us who remember the old days, and for the new folks, who for example can't remember when the training floor had the big TV array hanging from the ceiling where the white room is now.

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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by Boomerang »

Kale i'm not sure where you get the idea Orion is history? That is the one part of the Constellation program that was kept though it looks a little diffrent in a few places. Orion is scheduled to make its first unmanned test flight on i believe its a Delta IV Heavy later this year in fact. The thing that seems to keep changing is the launch vehicle. Right now the Space Launch System is scheduled for itst first test flight in 2017 which will be shortly into a new presidential administration but hopefully it will stay on track and not be canceled when it is that close to flight i thin cancelling it would be the final nail in the coffin for government sponsored manned flight then it would fall to the commercial industry which could do it but it would still be in the early stages even then.

Orion however keeps moving forward the capsule for the test later this year is already at KSC undergoing assembly and preperations.
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by airkale »

Interesting, when I was at KSC last year they spoke multiple times as though NASA will not be moving ahead with a manned space craft, but only the heavy lift rocket. According to the staff the private sector will be launching all the manned flights.
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by Boomerang »

Private sector will be launching manned fklights to low earth orbit. NASA is still developing the Orion capsule and the SLS heavy lift booster for deep space missions. Orion is still very much alive. As i said its first unmanned test is supose to be later this year it will be launched to a high earth orbit put through some of its paces then make a high speed deep space style reentry and landing to be recovered. The SLS is looking at a 2017 forst test flight.
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by p51 »

Well, one thing is a given, regardless how you fell about it:
Space Camp would be quite foolish indeed to invest in sims and support for them, to represent a system or vehicle that isn't going anywhere. I think it's a prudent move to be sure that whatever new sims they develop, they represent something that's going to be around for a while.
They really can't have any true idea what that'll be until probably well past 2015 at the rate things are going. SLS is the way of the future, NASA says... for now. Remember in 2010 when it was all about the Constellation program? In less than a year, it was gone and the SLS was the new thing coming.
It'd be truly foolish for SC to develop, build and start running programs on a vehicle they can't possibly know for sure at this time that'll be around for more than a few years, if then.
It's all uncharted territory, SC was built when the STS was already up, running, and wasn't going anywhere for a very long time. They've never had to start over before.
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by majtom7 »

Unsure if this has been mentioned anywhere but when the train cars at AC arrived, one had a B-52 cockpit sim in it.
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by Boomerang »

Thats true it did. However as of 2007 thjat trailer was condemned as unsafe and is no longer in use. And to my knowledge no use was ever made of the B-52 sim that was in it.
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by airkale »

Wow no crap. I actually managed to get to walk into one of the SAC cars one time for a quick glimse, but I don't remember to much about it. Anyone got pictures?

What about the sim itself, anyone been inside? I was lucky enough to get to go in an actual B-52 sim used by Air Force pilots full time in Barksdale AFB. It was a neat experience to get to fly the real thing, even though the graphics weren't great for the time. The sim was made out of an actual cockpit pulled out of a scrapped B-52 that they had mounted on hydraulics to make it full motion.

Another sad peice of history at the place done in by the weather. Maybe we can restore these after we raise the millions needed to restore the Skylab trainer...
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by Boomerang »

Kale i hate to say it but you desperately need to gt back to Huntsville or read hab 1 more often atleast. The Sky lab sim was restored and installed in the Davidson center last year. I'm going to try to make it down there for the Hall of Fame Dinner with Hotdog this summer you should really try and join us.
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by airkale »

When did that take place? Are we talking about the same thing? This is the trainer that used to be in the main museum correct?

If so, I fault that as a lack of you not talking to me Jason! lol
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by Boomerang »

Yep we are talking about the same exhibit. The discussion with a link to pictures can be found here http://habforum.hab1.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2511
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by airkale »

No idea how I missed that... I went back through the hab1 main page archives and didn't see anything on it. Well that makes me feel better knowing they finally got it back inside. Time flys I guess. I know since the last time Ive seen you guys, I had another kid and we moved to Space City (of Texas).

Ok well this serves a good example of what I have been saying about needing a dedicated site about all the stuff at the Sprocket... Vincent gimme a shout.
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by Vincent »

airkale wrote:No idea how I missed that... I went back through the hab1 main page archives and didn't see anything on it. Well that makes me feel better knowing they finally got it back inside. Time flys I guess. I know since the last time Ive seen you guys, I had another kid and we moved to Space City (of Texas).

Ok well this serves a good example of what I have been saying about needing a dedicated site about all the stuff at the Sprocket... Vincent gimme a shout.
Yeah, I can't imagine why I didn't cover that...
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Re: Pre-modern Sims

Post by airkale »

Well I guess I missed that one...
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