Space Camp after the shuttle

The place where campers hang out after a long day in the sims.

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Space Camp after the shuttle

Post by Boomerang »

I was just thinking with all this talk about space camps past what will its future be like after the shuttle is retired. We know NASA's plans for Orion and returning to the moon. And orion would be small enough to recreate the command module in the training center if they remove the shuttle simulators they could do ones with diffrent levels of advance similar to the shuttles at camp now. The station could stay as is since orion will carry crews there. IT would be cool if they could add a lunar landscape there or somewhere else with 1/6th chairs for simulated lunar EVA's. Add a lunar lander simulator for that partof the mission as well that campers could fly. The area wqhere enterprise is now could work for the lunar scape and maybe vach where Discovery is. Adding Orion simulators where Intrepid and Atlantis are and maybe where discovery or enterprise is since it wouldnt take the whole space. Though i'm thinking the iss mockup may need to be reduced in size to do it. Crews for orion will be 6 to the ISS and 4 to the moon so there should be suficient crew nbunbers to do missions similar to now.

Anyone else have any ideas?
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Post by ApolloXI »

I have been wondering that myself for some time.
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Post by des »

Well maybe the first few years they will still do the shuttle, but I would guess they would phase it out.

There are quite a no. of cool things they could do. They do/did have a space station module. They could also do lunar and/or Mars exploration with rovers and sample return and so on. I remember pix of little kiddies with these silly space suits out in the rocket park taking samples. They could do much better than this! They will know more about the new space vehicle so they can find out as much as possible and do a simulator of that. (Right now there are simulations but they are totally sci-fi, as far as that goes.) That would keep the elements of Mission control and so on. (The time factor would really have to be sped up!).

I like the idea of a simulated moon surface with the 1/6th gravity chairs, a rover, and I'd like to see a real surface where you could take some samples, and some kind of lunar lab. You could go in there and test your samples, and so on. You could have the kids do 24 hour sims in there. And also have a lander and so on.

They could even do a back to the future thing where they could do Apollo, the Shuttle, etc. Or even a more sci-fi one.

Actually I could envision a few different types of camps so they could really make it interesting. I sort of think they are imagining these things even as we speak! Hey that would be a fun job for CanadaSpace and a few of us other space educator types!! I couldn't leave my babies (cats and dog).

This would be a neat question to ask at the 25th anniversary!! Of course, I wonder if they would answer it. They might be keepign this close to the vest. :-)

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Post by Boomerang »

Space Camp tried a Sci Fi camp i believe it was last summer. Don't know how it went didnt know anyone who went to it and no word of others ever being offered.

There was actually talk about 10 years ago of opening a Star Trek space camp program. This was at a time when space camp had alot of huge plans stuff that would blow the current facilities away in comparrison. Then serious financial problems hit mainly due to a now convicted fellon former CEO and the plans colapsed.
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Post by Hotdog »

wow, that brought back memories of camp when i was there during the 20th anniversary of the moon landings (July 1989). We dressed up in Apollo EVA suits and did a fake moonwalk around the LEM in the rocket park. They had a Surveyor I and other instruments on the grounds during that time so it was extra realistic for us campers. For the visitors to the rocket park that day, it was a photo op. I remember alot of people taking pictures of us, right up until the time we went back inside to the training center. Later that night there were fireworks, and the Apollo 11 crew (Armstong, Aldrin, Collins) were there and gave a speech. It was a magical time to be at the Space & Rocket Center!!

I don't like the idea of a sci-fi camp, or any kind of star trek or reality camp, or unrealistic "survivor" camp. The "new" Area 51 aspect of the space camp program had to have been influnced by all of the reality/Survivor type of programming on TV which is stupid! I think the Area 51 "side dish" is an unnecissary time killer that distracts from "real" space camp training that could be taking place in the sims either in the training center or at AC. but that's just my two cents!

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Post by Boomerang »

Though i liked the idea of a trekk camp the original plan would have been in a very diffrent camp setting from the one we know due to major expansion plans they had. It would have been able to be a more seperate program./

As for Area 51 theoriginal a5rea 51 was built before the whole reality tv insanity. It was designed to be a team work building course and confidence building course. Team Work of course is important to any shuttle crew and astronauts who are military personel have been through confidence courses alot. I'd say it was a goodteam builder when i was there in 98 and it was fun. So really atleast the original idea hgad nothing to do with Survivor or any reality tv show dont know if the new one had any influemnce from that but i don't think so it seems to be a fairly typical high ropes course available at many camps.
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Post by tennisrox014 »

I really like area 51. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd go to camp if I knew it was going to be ALL space or aviation training.
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Post by jagsvolleyball14 »

ditto... area 51 is the best and imax's i know for the SC and ASA ppl is camp related but us ACers get to watch magnificent desolation and mission mars witch has nothing to do with AC... but to throw in a SC one they watched that had everything to do with AC and nothing to do with SC is i forgot what they were called but one was about a avalanche and the helecopter came in a recused a fam out of a car and the other one about the blue angels
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Post by monkeynautt »

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Post by Boomerang »

The one with the helicopter rescue was probably Straight Up Helicopters in Action. Though i diont remember that particular scene it showed helicopters doing alot of diffrent jobs including a Coast Guard Dolphin helicopter rescuing people at sea and having to leave one of its rescue swimmers at sea overnight in major bad weather due to a hoist malfunction. Thankfully the swimmer survived and was rescued the next day. I actually met that rescue swimmer when the movie premiered at the museum here. The chopper portrayed there was based at Coast Guard station Elizabeth City North Carolina.
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Post by des »

Those were maybe the pix I saw, if you were in Space Camp in 89. They are little kids definitely. They could really expand that idea with much more realistic sims. It was hard to see exactly what they were doing.
It's a little hard to say how realistic something is when you are a little kid. I remember going to Disneyland and going on the "autoban". It was these little cars on a track. My sister and I were crazy about it. Then when we were older we went back and my dad said not to go on it. That it would ruin our memory of it. We didn't think about the track as younger kids.
(At least if you went when I saw it didn't look too realistic, but then there sound like such cool aspects that I'm sure you will remember it your whole life.)

Wow! All three of them there. I don't think they get together that much.

No, I wouldn't want an all sci-fi camp either. But some people might like it. Actually I'm not sure I would want it at all, unless they got a very "realistic" Star trek enterprise, and you got to say "engage". LOL! :-)

I didn't know they had a felon as CEO, wow.
Well hopefully Space Camp will avoid that in the future. Of course they have the astronaut that was charged with kidnapping or something.

It is going to be hard after they retire the shuttle. Because there is going to be awhile that they will not really have anything to "pilot". I think that's a part of the Space camp experience. You can do dockings with ISS and various things with the ISS arm, but it isn't quite the same. Once they have what the new vehicle will be like then they will have more ways to go on this. I love the moon idea though (or Mars), even though it is sci-fish (because we haven't really done it). I think a most realistic sort of thing would be fantastic, and I would definitely want to do it.

--des

Hotdog wrote:wow, that brought back memories of camp when i was there during the 20th anniversary of the moon landings (July 1989). We dressed up in Apollo EVA suits and did a fake moonwalk around the LEM in the rocket park. They had a Surveyor I and other instruments on the grounds during that time so it was extra realistic for us campers. For the visitors to the rocket park that day, it was a photo op. I remember alot of people taking pictures of us, right up until the time we went back inside to the training center. Later that night there were fireworks, and the Apollo 11 crew (Armstong, Aldrin, Collins) were there and gave a speech. It was a magical time to be at the Space & Rocket Center!!

I don't like the idea of a sci-fi camp, or any kind of star trek or reality camp, or unrealistic "survivor" camp. The "new" Area 51 aspect of the space camp program had to have been influnced by all of the reality/Survivor type of programming on TV which is stupid! I think the Area 51 "side dish" is an unnecissary time killer that distracts from "real" space camp training that could be taking place in the sims either in the training center or at AC. but that's just my two cents!

Space Camp is Space Camp, not boot camp!
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Post by Boomerang »

Well the basic concepts for Orion are layed out though the exact cockpit and interior layout arent even close to finalised yet. NASA is working with industry to build a interim vehicle to taxi crews to and from the station and two private groups are working on that project now. One of the two is actually working to revive a Langley idea that when NASA was doing it was called the HL-20 lifting body same concept a taxi to and from the station holding a crew of 6 much smaller than the shuttle but can do the job. I havent seen the other company's concept yet. A shuttle cockpit is probably similar enough to what the HL-20 design would use to just use that idea if its the one selected. But i guess we'll see
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Post by des »

I imagine you could just take the software and internal workings, switch out the exterior, and everybody might be pretty happy. After all, the whole thing is based on suspension of disbelief. You know it isn't real but you convince yourself it is. (With their help of course). There are actually similarities between the shuttle and an airplane cockpit. But it isn't much like the Apollo cockpit.

--des
LB206 wrote:Well the basic concepts for Orion are layed out though the exact cockpit and interior layout arent even close to finalised yet. NASA is working with industry to build a interim vehicle to taxi crews to and from the station and two private groups are working on that project now. One of the two is actually working to revive a Langley idea that when NASA was doing it was called the HL-20 lifting body same concept a taxi to and from the station holding a crew of 6 much smaller than the shuttle but can do the job. I havent seen the other company's concept yet. A shuttle cockpit is probably similar enough to what the HL-20 design would use to just use that idea if its the one selected. But i guess we'll see
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Post by Boomerang »

Well the Orion wont be much like an Apollo cockpit in many ways because of the huge changes in technology though granted there are boud to be some similarities due to the basic design of the craft being so similar.
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Post by des »

No, no, I quite agree. I was thinking they could take the shuttle cockpit and rearrange a few things and so on. Of course, you don't have the whole SRB separation and stuff. Thank god! I think we'll all breathe easier to get rid of that!

Of course, Orion won't really be like that either. I think there might be a certain point where they are going to have to make stuff up. They did this in the past though. I have another book, "Your Future in Space" about space camp (a kid's book) and they made up the space station at one point. It still looks pretty cool. I dont' know if anyone has that book, but some of the living stuff is totally impossible to tell where it is. This all must be totally gone.


--des
LB206 wrote:Well the Orion wont be much like an Apollo cockpit in many ways because of the huge changes in technology though granted there are boud to be some similarities due to the basic design of the craft being so similar.
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Post by Boomerang »

i have that book and most of the stuff in it is long gone now except the basic simulators and some of the shuttle cockpits. But even the cockpits have had alot of changes made since that book came out.
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Post by Hotdog »

i have that book too somewhere. Wow i totally forgot about that book. At the time I bought it (1989), the new training center and hab were open so the photos were outdated. It was still interesting to see how much the program had grown in just a couple of years.
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Post by Hotdog »

oh, i remember when i was there in 1994 - or maybe when i visited the Center again in '96 - there was a reissued and updated version of the book with mostly new photos.
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Post by Boomerang »

Actually i think the later book was a completely diffrent title something like The Space Camp Adventure or something but it was basicly te same idea going through the training progra, complete with photos.
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Post by des »

The book is completely new. The idea is basically the same, telling about space camp, but in the first book they kind fo compare the space camp with an actual space flight. It's rather cool, and I think a little better done. The book was rather outdated from when I went as well.

--des
LB206 wrote:Actually i think the later book was a completely diffrent title something like The Space Camp Adventure or something but it was basicly te same idea going through the training progra, complete with photos.
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