2018

The place where campers hang out after a long day in the sims.

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blachwk
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Re: 2018

Postby blachwk » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:25 pm

majtom7 wrote:I agree. My feeling is that attendance is low due to the changes made to keep prices down, i.e., fewer and shorter missions plus shorter "weeklong" camps. (BTW, that's my interpretation of why sim time is down and camps are shorter.) It also maybe low because the generation raised on space is aging. There's other things to occupy us and our money. However, I feel that if you keep things more challenging, you'll get the serious repeat customer. That is a double edged sword, like any good sword. Higher prices mean fewer people, especially if previous camp attendance is a requirement which shrinks your potential market further. BTW, I see that the ASA Elite is $2,149. How many would pay that for an 8 day, 7 night camp, i.e., what the "weeklong" camps used to be? I would, depending on the activities.


I totally agree with you. If you keep things challenging or change things up often you will get serious repeat customers. However with SC changing things regularly there will be a cost associated with that as well. Although with the different levels and programs over the years, I would think that missions could be adjusted to keep things fairly fresh and new for those who attend fairly often without having to totally recreate the wheel and have too high of a cost involved. I do think it would be worth while to invite alumni in for a custom camp/work session in which mission ideas, camp schedules, and other activity ideas could be discussed, trialed, or worked on. I would think this would be just as challenging as a 'legit' LDR in which the group would be doing the mission but working on actual mission documentation, processes, new experiments, new scenarios, etc. I am sure we all have had ideas over the years.

Currently Advanced Space Academy is listed at $1199 and the Advanced Space Academy Elite is listed at $2099. That is quite the cost difference and I would like to know what the $900.00 difference gets you. Since many of us on here collect SC memorabilia, I do wonder if another set of wings will come out for this. (Or if they will still use the Advanced Space Academy ones).

In terms of trying to obtain interest and staying current, I realize that currently SC offers only the week long Cyber Camp and Robotics Camps for the appropriate age groups. I know families who have attended family space camp and/or family aviation challenge in which the parents will not allow their children to fly alone to attend any other camps (regardless of age). However if family camps were designed for either or both of these programs, I know they would sign up with their children and attend them as well. I am not sure of how that would work with the curriculum and short time, however I do know there is potential in this area to keep interest alive and the money coming in.
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Re: 2018

Postby majtom7 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:09 am

blachwk wrote:Currently Advanced Space Academy is listed at $1199 and the Advanced Space Academy Elite is listed at $2099. That is quite the cost difference and I would like to know what the $900.00 difference gets you.


LOL You can ask and they will answer you in a general way. The main differences readily apparent are: 1) time: one is 6 days/5 nights, the other is 8 days/7 nights. You get 2 more days; 2) extended duration lunar missions which I assume means more than 1 although their use of "an" makes me wonder; and 3) aerospace industry and NASA guest speakers.

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Re: 2018

Postby Hotdog » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:44 am

majtom7 wrote:
My feeling is that adult camps are the redheaded stepchild.


In a way, you are correct. One thing I forgot to mention is that right now, Space Camp attendance in the youth programs is B O O M I N G. The last two years or so, Camp programs have been booked to the max, to the point of having staff shortages during peak times. So as an administrator, if you have an open slot and have a choice of filling that slot with a youth program that is sure to sell out, versus an adult camp which might not, which would you schedule? I think this is why the adult groups are getting less love here lately.
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Re: 2018

Postby SpaceCanada » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:58 am

So true! When we were there in October 2017 Hab1 was FULL!! As in, every single room was occupied, including some not ordinarily used. Granted, it was with assorted families, so the rooms were not at capacity due to gender restrictions, but still - even in the off season they are getting very large groups, too.
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Re: 2018

Postby majtom7 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:00 pm

Hotdog wrote:In a way, you are correct. One thing I forgot to mention is that right now, Space Camp attendance in the youth programs is B O O M I N G. The last two years or so, Camp programs have been booked to the max, to the point of having staff shortages during peak times. So as an administrator, if you have an open slot and have a choice of filling that slot with a youth program that is sure to sell out, versus an adult camp which might not, which would you schedule? I think this is why the adult groups are getting less love here lately.


No doubt, that's good for USSRC and understandable. Yet if you cut back on attention, cut back on overall time for a "weeklong" camp so that what used to be 8 days / 7 nights is now 6/5 (really 4 1/2 as the last 1/2 day is graduation), cut back on mission time, keep camp level at assume everyone is a first timer, then it is close to a self-fulfilling prophecy that you'll have empty slots. The initial Hoot Camp generated a lot of excitement and interest. It was a great value for its price yet there was no way that there was going to be another loss leader like that. I feel that it led to inflated expectations at USSRC regarding future adult attendance and for possible attendees regarding future adult camp schedules. I wish that I had some thoughts on how to fix things because you'll be happy with whatever we (USSRC) offer you just doesn't cut it.
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Re: 2018

Postby p51 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:29 pm

majtom7 wrote:The initial Hoot Camp generated a lot of excitement and interest. It was a great value for its price yet there was no way that there was going to be another loss leader like that. I feel that it led to inflated expectations at USSRC regarding future adult attendance and for possible attendees regarding future adult camp schedules. I wish that I had some thoughts on how to fix things because you'll be happy with whatever we (USSRC) offer you just doesn't cut it.
The problem is that the Hoot Camp the following year didn't draw half the people that the first one did (I know because I was at Hot Camp II). I was disappointed as PK (who was at Hoot Camp I) and myself didn't experience nearly the treatment that folks in the first one did. Corners were cut, which were obvious to myself (having heard all the stories from PK and Steve) and PK clearly.
That experience to a degree soured my overall take on SC and how they valued the adult programs. You could say the shine had worn off the whole concept for me by that time.
Been seeing and hearing a slow decline in how adult sessions are handled, ever since.
I had a blast this year, but it was from the guys on my team, not so much SC itself. I got the real impression we were an afterthought, as if we started walking in and someone in the back of the HAB said, "Oh man, I forgot about these guys, someone grab them for the week and we'll figure it out as we go!"
Last edited by p51 on Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018

Postby blachwk » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:21 pm

p51 wrote:
majtom7 wrote:The initial Hoot Camp generated a lot of excitement and interest. It was a great value for its price yet there was no way that there was going to be another loss leader like that. I feel that it led to inflated expectations at USSRC regarding future adult attendance and for possible attendees regarding future adult camp schedules. I wish that I had some thoughts on how to fix things because you'll be happy with whatever we (USSRC) offer you just doesn't cut it.
The problem is that the Hoot Camp the following year didn't draw half the people that the first one did (I know because I was at Hot Camp II). I was disappointed as PK (who was at Hoot Camp I) and myself didn't experience nearly the treatment that folks in the first one did. Corners were cut, which were obvious to myself (having heard all the stories from PK and Steve) and PK clearly.
That experience to a degree soured my overall take on SC and how they valued the adult programs. You could say the shine had worn off the whole concept for me by that time.
Been seeing and hearing a slow decline in how adult sessions are handled, ever since.


I would have loved to attend Hoot camp I or II, however finances at the time just would not allow for it. For those who went to I or II, what things did you get to do vs 'regular' camp and secondly from what was done or heard, what was different between camp I and camp II?
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Re: 2018

Postby Conan » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:59 am

I was at Hoot Camp 1. It really was amazing. There were several missions. The long mission was shuttle-based and used the Space station. I found that there was a little more time with nothing going on during the mission. Fewer anomalies, but there was still plenty to do with experiments. I think this was because two teams were doing long missions simultaneously and there were limitations on the counselors. Also, they added a scuba component to the long mission so that Mission Control could send one or two people to the scuba tank to test out solutions to anomalies. These could not be people who were flying that day, though. There were Mars missions among the shorter, 2-hour long missions and they were done using the Orion simulator. We had the Marshall tour for everyone who was an American citizen and it was very good too. We went together to the local theatre on the first night to see The Martian, which was still showing. We had two "with an Astronaut" Teams. One got Hoot and the other (mine) got Bob Springer. But many times, both teams were together and we all got to spend time with both Astronauts. There was a very interesting lecture by a Scientist from JPL on The Martian and what they got right and wrong. One thing that helped a lot is that we were talking about this camp for months in advance on the Adult Space Camp website and our conversations were considered in designing the camp. It built up the interest and gave us the feeling that the camp was designed with our wishes in mind. The first team filled on the day that registration opened. I will have to pull out my schedule of what we did at the camp to get more information.
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Re: 2018

Postby gt0163c » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:34 am

I was at Hoot Camp 1 as well (same team as Conan *waves*). In addition to what she mentioned, we flew the sims at Aviation Challenge and climbed the climbing wall. We did a couple of hours at Area 51. We had a Skype session with a guy from mission control in Houston (although as I remember there were some technical issues). We did the MAT and 1/6th G chair. We built and launched model rockets. There were three 2-hour shuttle missions (along with their 1-hour training sessions), a 2-hour Orion mission and a 12 hour shuttle LDM. The week was packed. In my opinion maybe a little too packed as we were often rushed at meals (no lingering over the last of your beverage and chatting with team mates). But it was an awesome week full of amazing experiences.
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Re: 2018

Postby majtom7 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:44 pm

gt0163c wrote:There were three 2-hour shuttle missions (along with their 1-hour training sessions), a 2-hour Orion mission and a 12 hour shuttle LDM.


5 missions, 4 shuttle...

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